Writing sex: a confession

[fictional]

It may come as a surprise to those of you who read IHNIIHBT, which is sort of a pornographic epic, but I greatly dislike writing sex.

No, really.

I hate it a lot. Which is funny because lately, we've been doing a lot of it.

Don't get me wrong. I love that our story is so filthy and x-rated. In fact, sometimes I even think it could stand to be filthier. I like reading sex. Oh man, do I. Porn, for me, is a primarily written-word driven thing, and it was that way long before I discovered fandom and its box of erotic delights. Think reading bodice-rippers and skimming my way through Tess of the D'Urbervilles at seven, desperately (and unsuccessfully, fuck you, Thomas Hardy) searching for the dirty bits...! Flipping through the Mists of Avalon for the threesome scene, etc. etc.

But writing it? A resounding "feh!"

For one thing, it's really hard [no pun intended]. Sex is repetitive. We have a finite number of moving parts, we have a finite number of slots for those parts to fit into. We tweak, we stroke, we push, we pull, we slap, we tickle; we get wet, we get hard. It feels great, except when it doesn't. And if you add in too many adverbs and adjectives -- you run the risk of sounding like a romance novel, a bad romance novel.

I don't know about you, but I have sex in my head. If my brain isn't getting off, I can spasm all I want, but I haven't come. It's no good to me without the brainfuck. There's an internal narrative always going on -- which mirrors to varying degrees what's actually happening in the physical, corporeal world. Sometimes, the degree is zero. Things I would never do "for real", things I would find actively offensive or disturbing if I weren't in bed, and believing that the things people imagine or play at in order to find pleasure are all perfectly okay.¹

Thing is, when you're writing, the characters can't have internal narratives, unrelated to what's around them, because they're already in a narrative! Hell, they are the narrative. And of what interest to the reader -- who's using your story to furnish their own fantasy about say, Jack and Ianto -- is an internal, unrelated narrative that the character might possibly be having, if they were real? My feeling is, generally speaking, probably not much. Because that's like being OOC on purpose, and no one wants to see that, right?

So there's ways around it. Hence: dirty talk, d/s, drag, s & m, 3somes -- all games that are all about the stories you tell yourself. Narratives embraced and imposed.

But. I have to wonder, what are the fantasies of fantasies? What are the stories that stories whisper to themselves in the dark, or the ones they hold tightly to themselves, too ashamed even to say out loud?

Because that? That might be hot.


¹That's what I tell myself anyway. Rationalizations: more important than sex. Think about it. Ever made it through a day without a rationalization? Yeah..

Comments

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it's true that you can't have a character having an unrelated internal narrative during sex -- there's an excellent fic called "Getting to Yes" (I can link if you want) where Ianto is constantly distracted, during sex, by the idea of topping Jack despite the fact that he's nervous about asking. I've written a story that doesn't have sex in it directly but in which Ianto implies that Jack isn't actually the greatest guy ever in bed because as a flexible "dancer" he expects his partners to tell him their fantasies without him asking, but they don't because he doesn't ask, so he assumes they're not that imaginative in bed, and the whole vicious cycle continues...

I think there are ways around writing OOC brainfuck fantasies, because nothing really is OOC if you do it right. Especially if there's an admission of the fantasy and shame over it -- not shame in the deep-seated sense, but like you said there are things we think of during sex that we wouldn't necessarily think of, or would find offensive, at any other time.

The sex you write is hot, and that's great, but sex doesn't have to be about the reader's sexual fulfillment too -- which is actually why I write way less sex than I used to. 99% of the time now, I use sex in a story as a means to a narrative end -- and at least with IHNIIHBT I think you're often doing the same.

You have a gentle touch with narrative that doesn't flinch from confrontation, and that lends itself well to handling themes that others might only be able to write as OOC. I think an exploration of J/I's private fantasies might be very, very interesting -- especially Jack, who is on the one hand uninhibited but on the other living in a very inhibited time, when he likely has to keep a lot to himself for fear of scaring off his partners. As for Ianto...well. Very concerned with his dignity, Ianto is, and sex is by definition pretty undignified...

[rm.livejournal.com]

When we were having this discussion last night, I was also advocating for the idea that it is possible to do this in fiction, and that now I really wanted to (although IHNIIBT has no room for it, as we are now about 60% done with the last piece which has to do all sorts of really specific things). I think where it gets complicated isn't where the sex and the fantasies during sex don't match so much as when the sex and the fantasies during sex aren't about the same people. My question isn't how to not make it OOC, my question is how to not make it hilarious -- because Jack getting fucked by Ianto while fantasizing about tentacles: probably hot for Jack, completely hilarious for the reader however.

That said, we spent an immense amount of time talking about our Jenny fic last night. You're going to be a very happy boy.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

OH YES JENNY.

*ahem*

Well, perhaps you don't have it happen during sex -- I mean, Jack having sex with Ianto while thinking about tentacles is hilarious, especially if they're imaginary tentacles that Ianto has, but that's exactly why he can't tell Ianto about it, because he knows Ianto will either a) laugh or b) be grossed out and not be able to have sex with him any more. And that's kind of tragic, that Jack can't even be fully honest about sex, the thing he enjoys the most.

So you get a scene going where he talks to Ianto about why he can't tell him these things, and Ianto feels all fucked up because he can't relate to Jack on his level since he's never had sex with someone who had more than four limbs, and he's willing to believe that Jack thinks it's hot but is having trouble picturing it. It could be pretty funny an angstful and interesting -- though, yes, perhaps not hot per se.

I think to preserve integrity for the hotness, it would have to be something involving the other partner but not necessarily something IC for the other partner. Ianto seems pretty open about his fetish for costumes if the Captain's Blog is anything to go by, but I bet he's a lot more willing to dress up, himself, than Jack thinks he is. Jack probably wants Ianto to do things to him that he knows Ianto never will, or at least not with a lot of careful handling first...

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I try to avoid the slapstick in sex writing, although the Jenny thing is going to be oddly comical along with the hot, because it's just so so so funny (and the emotional arc is a much lighter one than the IHNIIBT one). I think it's going to be a bit of really, really dirty BDSM-y French farce while running about through time and space.

When it comes to Ianto, to go back to the Captain's Blog, mention, I figure he's got to be somewhat adventurous, even if he wasn't to start -- HOLY FUCK HE WORKS WITH ALIENS, so dressing up absurdly for sex? Well that doesn't seem ridiculous _at all_ compared to the rest of his life, now does it?

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Jenny is inherently funny, that's one of the appealing things about her. How could she not make having sex funny? She's Jenny! :D

I feel like the working-with-aliens thing could work against the uninhibited-sex thing, though, because as a Tippy Top Secret Agent you feel like you have to be as cool as they are on TV, and in addition he's got his James Bond fetish going on. Obviously he hasn't got any problems being kinky with Jack, but I suspect a lot of that is due to Jack's bred-in belief that sex is never ever uncool. (Plus, Jack thinks kinky sex is fun and almost everyone ever has thought Jack is cool, so there must be something to it, eh?)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Hahahaaha. Oh man, someone needs to do Ianto's internal "I am a cool, sexy secret agent" monologue right as it gets tripped up by something deeply, deeply stupid and unsexy that Jack will cackle about.

Poor kid.

Meanwhile, so so so so hard not to reveal Jenny hilarity to you.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I await it with bated breath!

I'd write the Ianto Gets Tripped Up story but I have an embarrassment squick that is IRONCLAD. There's a reason I like him so much...

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

I'd write the Ianto Gets Tripped Up story but I have an embarrassment squick that is IRONCLAD. There's a reason I like him so much...

This is tragic, because you would do this better than almost anyone ever. But I feel you on the embarrassment thing. I used to have to run away from sit coms because I was so embarrassed for the people on screen. It's bad.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

If I could figure out a way to write it where it didn't seem like either a scene from...well, Stargate Atlantis, let's be frank, or an OOC comic sketch, I totally would. And I'm working at it, but the problem with having someone with a running "I am a cool sekrit agent" monologue in their head is that there's no way to trip him up without mortifying him.

Although I suppose you could pull some kind of Sam Vimes on him....in Jingo, when he's confronting his enemies, Vimes picks up an ember from a fire, lights his cigar with it, and says something about "It's not about avoiding pain, just about ignoring it"...and then as soon as they're gone he drops the ember and starts swearing really loudly about how much that bloody hurt.

*percolates also*

[fmanalyst.livejournal.com]

Me too! Especially those '70s era sitcoms that thrived on that sort of thing. I couldn't even watch that deleted scene from Meat because I felt for Ianto's embarrassment.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Hahaha. Jack/Ianto do Jack/Doctor roleplay! Fucked up, y/y???

[rm.livejournal.com]

And if it's Jack's idea it's an angst!fic and if it's Ianto's idea, it's sort of sweet.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

"I was worried this might be too kinky, Jack, and then I remembered who I was sleeping with."

[rm.livejournal.com]

Jack: Wait, is this a pity for my neuroses thing?
Ianto: Na, just wanted to be the master of time and space for a bit.
Jack: Oh, okay, cool. 'Cause I hate being pathetic.
Ianto: Really? News to me. Hello? Hand in a jar?

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Jack: DO NOT DISRESPECT THE HA -- ...is that a sonic screwdriver?
Ianto: No. It just looks like one.
Jack: How much research did you do on this? I would have thought it would disturb you.
Ianto: I'm sorry, who's the one who has a fetish for immortals with god complexes? Oh yes, that would be me.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Hahahahah genius.

And I can't help but think the object in question is the thing that people on my friendslist keep linking to on Blowfish's site (hilarious in and of itself, that that's the name of the sex toy retailer of choice amongst most people I know) saying "hey, doesn't this look like a sonic screwdriver!"

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

The one that looks NOTHING LIKE a sonic screwdriver? :D

Dude, they sell toy sonic screwdrivers. I own one. I can personally vouch for the fact that it would just not be that hard to open one up and install a vibrator in it, if they're that hot for Doctor Who sex toys.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Jack: So... does it vibrate?
Ianto: You're about to find out.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Oh man. I can't figure out which would be more horrifying, Jack dressing Ianto up as the Doctor and Ianto not noticing (or noticing too late), or Ianto doing it independently and Jack getting all messed up over it.

Although I can't help but think that Ianto, for all his ambiguity about the Doctor, must wonder what it's like to be that powerful -- the Doctor survived Canary Wharf too, the Doctor ended Canary Wharf, so in that sense dressing up as him could be very empowering.

Oh god, Jack dressing up as the Doctor and dressing Ianto up as himself...*brain shorts out in horror*

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Oh god, Jack dressing up as the Doctor and dressing Ianto up as himself

Isn't this just business-as-usual Torchwood? I mean, remember that scene in at the end of DW s3, where Jack gets the Doctor his coffee and helps him on with his coat??

ON THE OTHER HAND, everything is better with costumes!!!

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I can't help but feel, though, that -- Jack dressing up as the Doctor is kind of sad, but at least it's just his own personal sad. Ianto allowing himself to be dressed up as Jack is just tragic.

Though I will say I have a weakness for Ianto dressed up in Jack's coat.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

This is because the coat is awesome.

Ianto allowing himself to be dressed up as Jack is just tragic.

FOR EVERYONE. I mean. Jack doing to Jack!Ianto all the things he wants done to himself but can never have???

Incidentally, I'm vaguely reminded of all those interviews where Sophia Myles [Mme de Pompadour] claimed that she made Tennant dress up in the costume for her in bed.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that he later denied, but I think he's a lying liar who lies, because COME ON. How could you not?

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Jack doing to Jack!Ianto all the things he wants done to himself but can never have?

Although that does lead circuitously back to the idea of Jack being unable to tell contemporary lovers what he wants from them because they would run screaming.

I think I may actually have to write the Ianto Dresses Up As The Doctor fic. I've got an opening for it.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Probably I made blanket statements, where I should'nt have been. Of course there are ways to do this. And of course, if you're a great writer, you ought to be able to sell almost anything. [yes, link please?]

but sex doesn't have to be about the reader's sexual fulfillment too -- which is actually why I write way less sex than I used to. 99% of the time now, I use sex in a story as a means to a narrative end -- and at least with IHNIIHBT I think you're often doing the same.

No, of course we are. And now that I've been thinking about this, and Rach has been thinking about it, I'm 98% sure we'll have a go at some point. BUT without it being about your reader *ahem* reaching the mountain top, as it were, or reading with only one hand scrolling -- it's still about fantasy fulfillment, isn't it? I mean, that's what people read fic for... to fill in gaps, to spend more time with people/worlds that they've fallen for via tv or book or movie or whatever. And when the fantasy -- by its nature more extreme than reality in whatever way -- has sex, I feel it might be hard to make it narratively satisfying by adding that other, unrelated layer.

As I said, upthread, is it fair, in a story to have Ianto doing something *really fucked up and edgy* to Jack, say strangling him -- and the narrative in his head is about something even more fucked up that that? Or unrelated to being there with Jack, like I don't know, pretending he's Darth Vader (who also likes to strangle people)? And while when we have fantasies like that, they can be perfectly serious, especially if unspoken, is there a way to say that in a fic with a straight face? Is it what people are looking for???

an exploration of J/I's private fantasies might be very, very interesting -- especially Jack, who is on the one hand uninhibited but on the other living in a very inhibited time, when he likely has to keep a lot to himself for fear of scaring off his partners. As for Ianto...well. Very concerned with his dignity, Ianto is, and sex is by definition pretty undignified...

mmm. Yes. *percolates*